Derek Engemann of Scour reflects on Phil Anselmo’s 2016 controversy

Phil Anselmo of Pantera was seen on camera yelling “white power” while doing a sieg heil onstage in January 2016. The incident happened during the then-annual “Dimebash” event, which was intended to honor the memory of Darrell Abbott, a late Pantera bandmate known as “Dimebag.” The consequences of the incident were swift and severe, as you might anticipate. After Phil first attempted to dismiss the situation as a joke gone too far, Robb Flynn of Machine Head publicly called him out for the salute. When Anselmo first addressed the issue, he blamed it on an intoxicated event that resulted from “white wine” being consumed backstage. Scott Ian, the guitarist for Anthrax, was also quick to criticize Phil for his behavior, which Anselmo eventually didn’t like.

Following a series of hasty apologies, Anselmo would later weather the storm of his actions before speaking out about the incident in an interview with Decibel that was released in October 2016. Anselmo apologized to people he had offended with his conduct after refuting claims that he held racist views. He admitted that his actions were in response to what appeared to be racist hecklers in the front of the crowd. Nevertheless, he was kicked out of several major yearly metal festivals as a result of the backlash. Anselmo has recently resurrected Pantera, Down, and a number of other projects, suggesting that he has finally moved past the scandal.

But even though many years had passed and many had moved on, this Metal Hammer opinion piece, which was published in November 2023, accused Anselmo of “whitewashing his own legacy” by deciding to get Pantera back together. Given the perception of Anselmo held by their late frontman Riley Gale during the “Dimebash” incident, Power Trip even faced criticism last fall for choosing to play with the reconstituted Pantera. Scour, a black metal collaboration that brings together Anselmo with current and past members of Cattle Decapitation, Misery Index, and other bands, is one of his ongoing musical endeavors. John The Ninja recently questioned Derek Engemann, the guitarist and singer for that band, about the “Dimebash” incident. 

Yeah, that was an unfortunate event, to say the least. John Jarvis [Scourbassist/vocalist] and I were actually there at the ‘Dimebash‘ that night. We were backstage hanging out and drinking. There was a lot of drinking involved. It is what it was back then. But a lot of people don’t really realize what happened.

So, they jammed all night for Dime, bringing out supergroups of people. Rex was there; all kinds of people were there. And Phil came out at the end for three songs. I think they did Motörhead, they did ‘A New Level‘, I think, and something else. The second came out on stage, there was a group of these three guys that were just — they were just heckling him from the second he walked out on stage, like, You racist. You fucking racist,’ blah, blah, blah. And everyone’s, like, ‘Yo, shut the fuck up. We’re trying to enjoy Pantera. This is for Dime. This isn’t about your bullshit.’ And they just kept on heckling him the entire time he was out. And at the end, he just lost it. And he was a little drunk and he did the most offensive thing he could to those people. And they were there with their camera. It wasn’t like he had pure hate in his heart, and he’s, like, ‘This is what I’m gonna say tonight. I’m gonna make a statement.’ It was, like, these motherfuckers were heckling him all night long, and he just threw gas on the fire. And it was super unfortunate. I know he feels terrible about it. [It was] probably a little embarrassing, I’m sure.

He continued explaining:

It’s not the best part of history, but Phil‘s owned it. He’s apologized. That’s not who he is. I’ve toured with him around the world with The Illegals, Scour shows, Pantera stuff. It’s just not who is. Even our most recent videos were shot by Malcolm Pugh, who’s half black. That’s my dawg. We go back 20 years too. We used to live together and whatnot. But he said people kept asking him, like, ‘Oh, I can’t believe you’re working with him after that.’ And he’s like, man, ‘Phil‘s been nothing but gracious to me, backstage, at his home.’ He’s, like, ‘I don’t even know what you’re talking about.’ So, I don’t know. I don’t know how else to say it, but it’s, like, that’s not who he is. It was a bad moment.