Craig Goldy shares his story with Chaoszine – Part 1: “It was a dream come true to be in a band with Ronnie James Dio, my favorite singer”

Craig Goldy is an American musician best known as the guitarist of Dio. Before joining Dio, he played in bands such as Vengeance, Rough Cutt, and Giuffria. Goldy became a member of Dio in 1985, performing on the latter part of the Sacred Heart tour and appearing on the Intermission EP (1986). In 1987, he played on the album Dream Evil, but left the band during the following tour in 1988 for unknown reasons.

Later, he formed Craig Goldy’s Ritual and released two solo albums through Shrapnel Records. During the 1990s, he collaborated with David Lee Roth and worked for several years with Christian evangelist and former Black Sabbath vocalist Jeff Fenholt. In 2000, Goldy returned to Dio and helped write and record Magica, but soon departed again due to family commitments. He rejoined the band in 2004 and played on Master of the Moon, which became Dio’s final studio album. The band effectively ended after Ronnie James Dio passed away from stomach cancer in May 2010.

In 2011, Goldy and several former band members, along with musicians who had been close to Ronnie, formed Dio Disciples, performing material from Dio as well as songs from his time with Black Sabbath and Rainbow. The band remains active to this day. In 2015, Goldy formed Resurrection Kings, releasing the band’s debut album in 2016. The band now returns with their sophomore album Skygazer. With that, it was the perfect time to pick up the phone, call the man himself, and get the latest updates. Goldy was in great spirits, which led to an extensive conversation lasting over two hours. What follows is the result—presented in two parts—covering his entire career in a nutshell.

RESURRECTION KINGS AND THE FRONTIERS

Let’s talk about the history of Resurrection Kings. I remember when the first album came out. I was really impressed by how it sounded, and the lineup (Vinny Appice on drums, Chas West on vocals, and Sean McNabb) was strong. However, the band never did much touring, at least not here in Europe.

Craig Goldy: Well, here in California, we did play some shows with Resurrection Kings—there are a few you can find on YouTube—but we never got the chance to tour properly. A lot of that has to do with the streaming situation, where musicians’ income has basically been stripped away. Because of that, people have to juggle multiple projects at the same time. So trying to get everyone’s schedules to line up becomes very difficult. Even back when the first Resurrection Kings record came out, touring budgets had already been cut drastically because of it. We were supposed to go on tour with Whitesnake, and everything was set, but the budget was so low that we couldn’t do it. It was something like $500 for the whole band per week.

Wow. Does that sound like the same kind of pay bands were getting in the ’70s or early ’80s? [Laughs.]

Craig Goldy: Yeah, yeah—before you even started. Yeah, so it was just like, “Wow.” A lot of that is due to streaming, and it’s forcing musicians to take on multiple projects just to make a living. So it becomes nearly impossible to find five people who all have to do that and then align their schedules so they can commit to a couple of weeks or even a month of touring.

When the first album, Resurrection Kings, was released, it got good feedback, but it seemed to pass quickly—at least from the outside.

Craig Goldy: Yeah, it sure did, didn’t it? [Laughs.] I thought there were some good songs on there, and I thought it was going to do much better than it did. And unfortunately, I guess it didn’t. [Laughs.]

Yeah, but nowadays, every musician knows that most of the money comes from touring and merchandise. Back in the day, it was almost the opposite.

Craig Goldy: Well, that’s the problem—once again, the issue is streaming. I understand it, because what happened was it started a while back, when Desert Storm began. Here in America especially, we had a recession as a result of that war. And then, at the same time, Michael Jackson and Madonna both demanded a billion-dollar advance from their record companies, which they got—but they didn’t recoup. So now the record companies were in a deficit.

So there was a recession in the music industry inside a recession in the nation. Record companies started tightening their belts. And bands like Whitesnake—I’m just using them as an example—were, like… in 1987, that record was just perfect, and it had everything. There wasn’t one song on there that somebody couldn’t connect with. So, no wonder it sold millions and millions of records. And David Coverdale worked himself up the ladder by being in Deep Purple first. And now this was his band. And he was able to get the lion’s share. So he worked himself up to that level—it was just amazing what he had done, because of what a great songwriter and singer he was, and still is. But he was able to enjoy the time when people actually bought CDs and T-shirts and concert tickets and all that kind of stuff.

So now, with the recession within a recession, guys like that had to have a smaller advance. People like that were used to having record company advances of at least $500,000 per album. And so now they had to—because Michael Jackson and Madonna were not recouping a billion dollars. So that’s $2 billion that didn’t come back. So now, because of these two pop artists, everybody had to work just as hard as before but for less money. So they started to resent that. So they didn’t work as hard. And it started to show—not necessarily with Whitesnake, but with some bands. So people started getting tired of buying CDs for $15 and getting only three good songs. And that kind of started the whole streaming thing.

I understand it, because I myself—my favorite bands are Deep Purple and Rainbow—and I bought the vinyl, I bought the eight-track, I bought the cassette, I bought the CD, I did the download. So sometimes, when I go off and do some concerts with Joe Lynn Turner, I might turn to YouTube for a quick refresher so that I can remind myself of the songs that I’ve already learned and bought four times. So I don’t mind going on there and listening to a song for free, because I bought it four times. But the record companies needed to start making money. That’s why, all of a sudden, instead of nine songs per CD, it became 12 or 13 songs per CD. And then, when the Seattle sound hit, that took everybody out, and things became even worse. So when a movie comes out—even nowadays, it still goes to theaters, then to on-demand, then to HBO, then to Netflix and streaming. But nowadays, music goes straight to streaming. And now that I’ve worked myself up to a point where I contractually have the lion’s share, I get nothing. And it’s heartbreaking.

Between the lines, would you say that Lars Ulrich was right about his Napster comments back in the day?

Craig Goldy: In many ways. I didn’t watch everything that he said, but I do remember that they tried very hard to fight the new business model that was coming. And yes, I definitely believe what they were trying to do was the right thing. They might not have gone about it the right way—it may have come across the wrong way.

However, Resurrection Kings released their second album, Skygazer, last July. When did you start working on the album, and when was the recording finished?

Craig Goldy: Almost two years ago. It was just, once again, the whole streaming situation got in the way, and so many times the people we were working with had to stop and focus on something else. And so, a lot of times, Frontiers had Alessandra working on other projects. Sometimes I would have to do something else—Chas and Vinny as well. So it was kind of hard to get all of our schedules together at first. Contractually, we had a set time and date when everybody kind of opened up their schedules—I couldn’t believe it. For the first time, everybody had the same schedule. But then other things happened, and there was a delay caused by Frontiers. I’m not trying to throw them under the bus—it’s just what happened. So then one thing led to another, and it took a long time to put it together because everybody, once again, was scrambling, doing eight million different things because of streaming.

I’m sorry to harp on the streaming thing. It’s just that the problem is that money is a tool. Ronnie James Dio used to do things like building a shelter, because a lot of people would come to Los Angeles in search of a dream and end up getting drunk, becoming addicted to drugs, or turning to prostitution. And so there was a doctor who was going out on the streets rescuing these kids but didn’t have any more room for them. So Ronnie built them a shelter. And later on, a few years back, when Ronnie was still with us, they held a reunion of all the people that the shelter had helped. Some of them were high-ranking military officials and went on to do productive things, but they had once been on the streets, addicted to drugs and forced into prostitution. And that was where money became a tool. Ronnie would sometimes pay the rent of his fans when they were having trouble doing so.

And when I saw things like that, I wanted to do something similar too. So that’s really why the money issue—I just hope that eventually, with touring… you’re right, that’s the only way we make money. But unfortunately, bands went overboard and started charging too much for tickets and forcing people to buy something at the merchandise table before they’d even get a signature, an autograph, or a picture. And so, hopefully, we’ll return to a proper balance again. I’m hoping that eventually people will get tired of this and go back, because back in the ’80s, there was a great balance between fan and band. And right now, it’s very unbalanced. And hopefully, we’ll get back to that.

DREAM CHILD

A couple of years ago, you released an album called “Until Death Do We Meet Again,” and the band was called Dream Child.

Craig Goldy: Yes.

There’s an impressive lineup on that album. Rudy Sarzo on bass, Simon Wright on drums, Wayne Findley on guitars/keyboards, and the impressive Diego Valdez on vocals. The album was a killer, and if you ask me, it sounded like the lost Dio album.

Craig Goldy: Thank you for saying that. Yeah, that was really the reason behind it. It was more like a tribute, especially if people listening to this go back and there’s a thing called Meet the Band. And so, Rudy has an interview, and he puts it really well, saying that this is more of “a thank you” to those people who made that kind of music. And it is kind of a tribute to that. It’s not like we’re trying to replace anybody. And I think you even read the press release on how it even started. Serafino and I were talking about something else related to Frontiers.

And when I go on YouTube to do a refresher course, sometimes I’ll notice the Deep Purple and Rainbow stuff. There are comments where people say, “They don’t make music like that anymore.” And that was the whole idea. I told that to Serafino, and he goes, “Well, can you?” I said, “Yeah.” And stop me if you’ve heard this story before, but then he goes, “Well, can you get me Rudy Sarzo?” That’s how it all started. I was like, “Yeah.” And luckily, he was available and interested. “Can you get me Simon Wright?” So, he asked for those people specifically. And I’m like, “Yeah.” And luckily, Simon was available and interested. Then he goes, “Who would you like to write with?” So, I said, “Well, Wayne Findley. He and I write very well together; he’s the second guitarist and keyboardist in Michael Schenker’s band. In fact, he and I both live here in San Diego, California.” So, we were trying to do a similar thing, but it didn’t get off the ground. And then Doogie White and I had written some stuff together. Jeff Pilson and I had written stuff together. Chas West and I have written stuff together. Alessandro Del Vecchio and I had written some stuff together, so we knew that the writing was covered.

So then he goes, “Who would you have to sing?” [Laughs.] And 11 years ago, almost right after Ronnie passed away, a friend of mine, Diego Valdes, sent me a song that was a remake of ‘Push’, which Ronnie and I wrote. And it was so close. It was chilling. It sounded like Ronnie was covering his own song. That’s how close it was. I was like, “Oh my God.” But it was way too soon. So I got ahold of his friend and said, “Who is this guy? And how do I get in touch with him?” So, he hooked me up with Diego, and Diego and I became friends, and we waited for almost 11 years. And then I said, “I think it’s time.” So, when Serafino goes, “Who would you have to sing on this album?” I said, “Hang on a second. I’m going to send you an MP3.” So, I sent him that. [Laughs.] And I woke up the next morning with a contract for an album in my inbox. [Laughs.]

I’m not surprised. It’s a great album. And it’s also the Dio album Rudy never played on.

Craig Goldy: Wow, that’s a good way to put it. That’s cool. I never thought of it that way. Thank you.

Yeah, because I’ve read many of his interviews where he says he’s disappointed and sorry that he never had a chance to play on a Dio album. Of course, this is not the same, but it was the closest thing possible.

Craig Goldy: I understand what you mean. Yeah. But I’ve just got to say, I’m sure he told you many stories about him and Ronnie, but being able to watch those two—because I was in a band with Rudy before I joined Dio—so I know what it’s like to be in a band with Rudy, and obviously, I know what it’s like to be in a band with Ronnie. So when Ronnie was considering Rudy, it was like, “Oh, this is going to be too good.” And they became so close. They were almost inseparable because they were so alike. Ronnie really loved Rudy, and it was great having him in the band.

When you say that you were in a band with Rudy, are you referring to the Project: Driver band?

Craig Goldy: Oh, it was just before that. Yeah, because that’s when Rudy and Tommy joined up with Tony MacAlpine. For some reason, I’m drawing a blank.

THE OLD DAYS IN SAN DIEGO

You’re originally from San Diego, and recently, I’ve been following the new documentary about Stephen Pearcy. In that document, there’s a lot of talk and discussion about San Diego’s music scene in the ’70s and ’80s. Have you seen that?

Craig Goldy: Oh, Stephen Pearcy, yeah, yeah. I didn’t get a chance to see that, but I saw that it was out. I’ve been meaning to watch that.

I live in Finland, and from our point of view, everything important in the music world always happens in Los Angeles and New York—okay, nowadays in Nashville and Las Vegas as well. But it was really interesting to watch that documentary and learn what an active music scene you had in San Diego, and how many future rock stars were coming from there.

Craig Goldy: Yes, that’s true. That’s true. I think it comes in seasons, too, because, as you said, Nashville, New York, Chicago, Detroit—there are a lot of epicenters for music. And I think it just kind of goes in seasons of what is popular and what isn’t. Seattle only happened because, quite honestly, of a record company executive I knew. And it was just before the Seattle sound hit. We were sitting at the Rainbow. He said, “I’m going to go on vacation, and I want to talk to you about a project coming up when I get back.” So, I’m thinking maybe he’s going to go to Fiji or Hawaii. I go, “Where are you going?” He goes, “Seattle.” I thought, “What?”

Back in those days, girls were willing to perform sexual acts on each other while he sat and watched. That’s why he was going to Seattle. And he had what was called signing power, meaning that he had signed a number of bands that went multi-platinum. So, if he signed a band and they flopped, he’d still have a good job waiting for him. And he didn’t have to go to his superior to get permission to do so. So, when he went to Seattle, the girls were saying, “Oh, can we stop at the bar? My girlfriend’s friend’s band is playing there,” because he wanted one more girl to accompany them. And he’s like, “Sure.”

So, he’s in the club, and he’s listening to this band that sounded like they were doing everything against the rules, but there was something about it he loved. And they were wearing flannel shirts and stuff—not as a fashion statement, because it was freezing out there. [laughter] And they were breaking the rules. They looked like they didn’t care. They sounded like they didn’t care. And a lot of it was because they just plain didn’t care, because Seattle wasn’t a hub like Chicago, Detroit, New York, Las Vegas, or LA. And so, when he signed that band, he only signed them for something like $30,000. But they sold something like 30 million records, and that changed everything. And it’s interesting how that kind of stuff happens behind the scenes. But yeah, it’s a crazy industry. Hopefully, it’ll restore balance. But I think at the time, Jake—Jake E. Lee—from San Diego was in a cover band, and he scared me. He was doing everything Eddie Van Halen could do—anything Eddie could do, Jake could do. And he had the look and everything.

And I think it was Jake who started the whole San Diego thing, because when he moved up to LA, they snatched him up right away. And then the band Ratt was called Mickey Ratt. There were guys in there from Rough Cutt who eventually ended up in that band and Ratt. So, when the guys from Mickey Ratt went up to LA to try to form their own band, that’s when they decided to just call it Ratt. So there were a ton of people from San Diego. It was just like a season. There were also a lot of famous actors and actresses from San Diego. It was just like a season. And suddenly, the one good thing about the music industry or the entertainment industry is that everybody has a chance. But in a way, it’s kind of watered things down, because as long as you’re willing to do some really crazy stuff on YouTube to get a bunch of views and likes, then you can become a millionaire. But you’ve got to be willing to do some really extreme things for attention.

I find it interesting how many San Diego musicians played in the same bands one after another. You replaced Jake in Rough Cutt at some point, Jake was briefly in Ratt, and Warren replaced him, the Rough Cutt guys played with everybody, and the list goes on. It must have been a really interesting time, and the competition was tough?

Craig Goldy: [Laughs.] Yeah. When Jake left San Diego, he was in a band called Vengeance before he joined a band called Teaser. The band Teaser was the Van Halen-style tribute band. That’s what got him to LA. But prior to that, there was a band called Vengeance he was in. And when he left to form Teaser, I took his place in Vengeance. That was the demo. That was the demo that got into the hands of Ronnie James Dio, which got me the audition for Rough Cutt when Jake left to join Ozzy Osbourne.

Oh, it’s a small world.

Craig Goldy: Yes, exactly.

By the way, when it comes to Ratt, did you ever see the band Mickey Ratt live in San Diego?

Craig Goldy: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It was interesting because they definitely had their own sound, even though they were doing covers. And it was the same thing with Jake. I mean, they did covers of Van Halen and a bunch of other stuff, but there always came a time when Jake would improvise. They’d have a spot where he would just go off. And that’s when he shined the most—when he was just himself. It was the same thing with Mickey Ratt. All those guys were so talented—like Warren DeMartini, I mean, all the guys in that band were quite talented. I don’t really call Stephen Pearcy a singer; he’s more of an entertainer. But what he does is great. I mean, he couldn’t touch a guy like Ronnie James Dio, David Coverdale, or Glenn Hughes. He’s more in the Ozzy Osbourne, Vince Neil kind of category.

I got your point.

Craig Goldy: And that’s okay. I don’t have any problem with that. I mean, I like the way they sounded. There’s something about them. I understand why they did as well as they did. They were all really—they just had their own sound.

Since you played a lot in different bands in San Diego, did you ever play in the same band with Stephen Pearcy at any time?

Craig Goldy: No, no. I think we were talking about it at one point, but we never did hook up to do that. At one point, there was a time when he and I were talking backstage about how it would be really cool to do something together someday, but we never got a chance to do it.

THE DIO YEARS

As you mentioned earlier, in the early ’80s you moved to LA. You had previously played with Vengeance, which Wendy Dio once managed. At that point, you were a member of Rough Cutt, whose demo Ronnie James Dio was producing. Soon after, you joined the band Giuffria. However, when you moved to LA, you lived for years at Ronnie’s house. I find it interesting that so many people have lived there at some point, including Rough Cutt vocalist Paul Shortino and your Dio Disciples bandmate Oni Logan. It must have been a special place to stay at that point in your career.

Craig Goldy: Well, yeah, it was just because of Ronnie’s heart. He wanted to make sure that everybody had a place to go, food in their belly, a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in, a shower to get clean in, and an opportunity for them to be heard by the world. And he was just really good that way.

There were a lot of magazines that were just starting out, and he helped many of them because he was the biggest name those magazines had to begin with. Sometimes, I remember in the early days watching him get together with these people early in the morning. And they were just magazines printed out on a copy machine—like a Xerox copy machine—and then they would just kind of hand them out to their friends. And I’m thinking, “Why are you doing this?” I’m thinking to myself, “You’re such a big name.” I almost thought he was wasting his time.

And I didn’t realize that, at that point, there were magazines like Kerrang! and things like that really—when you go all the way back to the beginning. There are certain DJs on radio stations like Eddie Trunk. A bunch of different magazines started off with very little circulation. And because Ronnie agreed to do interviews with them, that opened up the door for other people to go, “Oh, you did an interview with Ronnie. Okay, I’ll do an interview with you.” And then, little by little, they became internationally circulated magazines. Eddie Trunk became a huge name.

And it’s just interesting how many careers he helped start—people in the crew, lighting directors, mix engineers, front-of-house engineers, monitor engineers. All these guys ended up getting really good jobs with other bands, and they ended up making more money than they did with him. But it was an open-door policy, and it was run like a family, and it was just amazing.

When you lived at Ronnie’s place, did you ever meet any familiar faces there?

Craig Goldy: There was only one time when Matt Thorne, the bass player from Rough Cutt, and I were staying there at the same time. Usually, Ronnie kind of—because it’s his home—was quite private. So he was kind of selective, although it doesn’t seem like it. [Laughs.] But that’s another reason why Oni Logan was in Dio Disciples, because that band was supposed to be… the only way to be in that band was to have a close relationship with either Ronnie or Wendy Dio, or both—or be a member of Dio. Those were the two things—and in many ways, it limited us. But at the same time, that’s what made us great.

Because even Tim “Ripper” Owens—Ronnie loved him. He wanted to make Tim his protégé, took him under his wing, and wanted Wendy to manage him. So Wendy managed him for a while. When we were doing Magica, I remember there were times when Ronnie would stop recording so that Tim could come in. And those two could just sit and visit for a couple of hours because Tim was in town. And then we’d go back to recording. That’s how much he cared about Tim. And so, when Ripper comes and joins Dio Disciples, it’s because of that connection.

Oh, that I didn’t know.

Craig Goldy: Yeah. But the only thing is, Tim is such a different entertainer. He’s got such a great sense of humor, and the way he relates to the audience is totally different from how Ronnie connected with the audience. So, because he uses humor—and sometimes he’s almost like… do you know the famous American comedian Don Rickles?

Yes.

Craig Goldy: Yeah, so Tim can be a little bit like that. He’ll talk to the audience almost like, “Hey, what are you doing, you idiot?”—but he doesn’t really mean it. But to some Dio fans, it can seem like he’s—when he talks about Ronnie and while we’re doing this show—it almost comes across as him being insincere. And that’s the problem, because it’s not insincere. Tim is more light-hearted and focused on using humor and light-heartedness to entertain rather than deep, dark subjects. And so, I think that confused people. Tim is a good guy. He is.

TIME TO BURN AND DREAM EVIL

Everyone knows the story of how Dio split with Vivian Campbell in 1985, and you then replaced him in the band. At the time, you still played with Giuffria, and you also had that Project: Driver band in the process. Was it a difficult decision to leave those other things behind and join Dio?

Craig Goldy: Well, there were a few things, because you mentioned Giuffria, and that the band was called Driver. That’s why they called it Project: Driver, but the band I had with Rudy Sarzo and Tommy Aldridge was called Driver. It was back in the days of Rough Cutt that Ronnie—when we were doing late-night recording sessions—there were a few things I had done that I guess impressed him.

If you can imagine, picture me being 19, sitting on the floor with my guitar right next to Ronnie’s chair, and Ronnie leaning down and saying, “Can you try this?” and he’d sing me a melody, and I’d say, “You mean like this?” And it was kind of—I hate to use the word “cute,” but now that I think about it, if I had been in that room, I would have thought, wow, that’s really cool, because I was such a huge Ronnie fan. He was, and still is, my favorite singer. So, one night, he turns to me and goes, “Goldy, if Vivian ever doesn’t work out, you’d be my first choice.” And that was it. That’s why there were no auditions or anything. It was because he and I had worked in the studio so much during those Rough Cutt demos, and we wrote those demos together, and we enjoyed working together so much.

There were so many times during that era where it was just me and Ronnie sitting on his couch, hanging out, watching old Rainbow videos, and he would show me stuff and ask, “What did you think just happened there?” And I’d go, “Well, it looked like this.” “Well, no.” And then he’d explain to me what really happened, then he’d rewind it, and I’d be like, “Oh.” So, he was constantly showing me behind-the-scenes stuff. And they’d bring me into record company negotiations, and I wasn’t even in the band yet. And it was crazy. So then, when I had to leave Rough Cutt, just before they got a record deal with Warner Brothers, that was a big deal. It was a huge risk because they had just gotten that deal. Giuffria had no record deal and no monetary support. Plus, at the time, Gregg Giuffria had a bad reputation.

But when I went to see David Glen Eisley and Gregg together, I just saw it—this is going to be big. So, I had to leave Rough Cutt. And everybody thought I was crazy, except for Ronnie. So Ronnie told me—he goes, “Look, kid. Don’t get your feelings hurt if I have to pretend I hate you when I’m around the Rough Cutt people.” [Laughs.] He goes, “But I know what you’re doing, and good luck. I hope it turns out.” So, a year later, Rough Cutt got dropped from the label, and Giuffria had a hit song, and I was touring with Deep Purple on the Perfect Strangers tour—my favorite band—and I got a chance to meet Ritchie Blackmore.

So, in a way, everybody won then?

Craig Goldy: Yeah. Well, sort of. Rough Cutt got dropped from the label.

You had recorded with Ronnie before—not only for Rough Cutt demos, but you also played on his Stars project in early 1985. But once you officially joined Dio, the first thing you did with the band was write and record the song ‘Time to Burn’, which was then released on the Intermission EP in the summer of 1986.

Craig Goldy: Yes.

How was that writing/recording experience, and how was it to work with Jimmy Bain and Vinny Appice in the studio?

Craig Goldy: Well, because Rough Cutt did a lot of opening for Dio, I got a chance to know the guys. Jimmy and I were friends, and Vinny—I looked up to him like a big brother because he had a great sense of humor, but he was really sharp. And Ronnie loved Vinny. At the time, Vinny was basically Ronnie’s best friend, except for the tour assistant, Willie. So, I got a chance to build a friendship with those guys because Rough Cutt, unfortunately, was very—everybody in that band had their own agenda. And that was the trouble with Rough Cutt. Everybody wanted to do things their own way, and there was no single vision. So, a lot of them walked around with a sense of entitlement. And that didn’t go over very well with the rest of the guys in Dio, because I was the only one who was just happy to be there. I’m a fan—I’m just a fan who got into the band. So I treated them with the utmost respect, and I think that went a long way when I ended up being in the band.

They didn’t want Vivian to go, so I knew that. It was tough for them because they were all friends. So that was difficult for them. But at the same time, we had already known each other, and we only had six rehearsals before we left to go on tour and appear on live television. So, Ronnie wanted to do an EP with one studio track, but the live concert they used was actually from San Diego, and Vivian’s guitar was out of tune. So I was in the studio overdubbing all of Vivian’s rhythm parts for that Intermission EP. Not many people know that. And while we were doing that, we wrote ‘Time to Burn’ in the studio. Then, when we were done with that, we went into another studio and recorded the song. And if you listen to that guitar tone—especially in the very beginning, the first two chords, and then there’s a chunk afterward—that right there is so percussive and aggressive.

Still, those weren’t the amps we ended up using for Dream Evil, and that was a bummer because I was looking forward to using those amps I had used for the ‘Time to Burn’ recording. There were a few mishaps during that album. At the time, people didn’t like it—they didn’t like the guitar sound; they didn’t like the drum sound. Now people are starting to like it because it’s becoming more of a classic. As they look back, I’m getting all these comments from people saying, “Man, every time I listen to it, I hear something new.” Some even say it’s their favorite album, but at the time, it was kind of a letdown for everybody.

I do remember when Dream Evil came out, and I thought the album sounded very different from the early Dio material—more, should I say, dry compared to the first three albums.

Craig Goldy: The biggest thing was that, for some reason, the engineer forgot to put a microphone on the hi-hat. So he was using the bleed of the hi-hat into the snare microphone, but he put a gate on the snare mic. A gate—just for anyone who might not know—is a piece of equipment that shuts the microphone off until it reaches a certain decibel level, and then it turns on. So if they were relying on the hi-hat bleed, a lot of times—if they were playing eighth notes—you only heard the quarter notes, because that’s when the microphone would open for the snare hit.

So in many songs, you didn’t hear the eighth-note pattern of the hi-hat; you only heard the quarter notes, which made it sound very different. There was also a lot less reverb on the drums. And I was forced to use only a stock Marshall JCM800 head—no modifications. Luckily, I was able to use a foot pedal with a tube in it that kind of recreated an extra preamp tube, but it still didn’t sound as good as ‘Time to Burn’.

But now that people look back on it, it’s nice because it’s become more of a classic, and people are able to be a little more forgiving and overlook some of the problematic portions of it and start to see it for what it really was. It was almost like bringing more of a Rainbow-type influence into Dio. So it was the first time Dio had more of that Rainbow feel.

You filmed two music videos to promote the album. Do you have any special memories from those shoots?

Craig Goldy: One very special memory was during ‘All the Fools Sailed Away’. It was one of the best and worst experiences. At the time, Ronnie and I did a lot of planning together—it was a lot of fun. So, we went to the director together and talked about the concept. The person dressed in black who whispers into people’s ears—that was my idea. I suggested having a deceiver dressed in black who approaches all kinds of different people. That’s why you see a football player, a businessman, and so on. This deceiver comes in and whispers things like, “Come with me, I’ll make your dreams come true,” and then all the fools sail away.

While we were filming, we were on the beach, and they had gas pipes hidden in the rocks so fire could come out of the water. It was a great effect. But during the chorus, they kept turning the flames higher to make it look more dramatic. I actually got burned pretty badly. The first time it flared up, my nerves didn’t register it. But the second and third times, it got worse and worse. I ended up with third-degree burns on my leg, all the way down to the muscle. It took a whole year to heal. Meanwhile, I went on tour with a hole in my leg. I had to take painkillers just to get through it. And during the guitar solo—when I was shooting a laser at the spider—the cable ran along the back of the neck of the guitar. It made it harder to play because it increased the stretch between my fingers. So I was limited in how I could play.

It was a very interesting time to be on tour.

SACRED HEART TOUR TALK 

Your first public live performance with Dio was in April of 1986, and it was a live television show called the Tube in the UK.

Craig Goldy: It was. I thought the first show was live on television. Did you hear the story of what happened before we went on The Tube?

No?

Craig Goldy: Well, we had the equipment I was using to get the sound for ‘Time to Burn’ and the rhythm parts for Intermission. But my gear didn’t clear customs—that means the guitar, amps, everything. So, we were sitting in the studio, and there were two guitars; neither of them worked properly. So, the guitar tech had to build one working guitar out of the two, and we had to rent gear. So, six minutes before we went live, everything finally came together. I had six minutes to get everything ready.

But you were lucky because no one was watching the show! [Laughs.] (There was a HUGE crowd watching the show.)

Craig Goldy: I didn’t know that. I literally thought nobody was watching. [Laughs.] I’ll never forget that—that’s a good one. Thank you, Marko. I’m going to remember that; that’s a good one. But luckily for me, no one was watching. [Laughs.]

However, your first actual live gig with Dio happened here in Helsinki.

Craig Goldy: Wow. Okay, I didn’t know that.

Yeah, it was.

Craig Goldy: Well, I’ll take your word for it. I’d have to go back. I’ve got a box full of old itineraries. I’ll have to check. Not that I don’t believe you—I do. Why would you say it if it wasn’t true?

The stage show was huge on the Sacred Heart tour. There was that massive dragon on stage, lasers, tons of pyro, and a lot of other effects. I still remember that the tour was advertised as “The biggest rock show on Earth” in Finland, and it really was at the time. It must have been amazing to be on stage during that tour.

Craig Goldy: That was amazing, yeah. Because for the first time, I was in a headlining band. And the stage felt enormous—it was like a city within a city. There was so much room. At the time, I was glad I had help from Ronnie’s crew. There was one guy they nicknamed Ferret. He helped me with the wireless unit because, at the time, I didn’t like how wireless systems affected the guitar tone. So, he modified it—added some kind of capacitor—so that my guitar sounded the same while still using the wireless. That changed everything because Ronnie wanted me to use the full stage. If I had been using a cable, it would have severely limited what I could do. And ever since then, I haven’t been able to find a wireless unit that doesn’t affect the tone.

Ronnie and I also had to make sure we didn’t cross our cables—because one time we got tangled up on stage, and that was no fun. But yeah, the fire effects really worked. Every single night, a fire marshal or some kind of authority figure had to come in during soundcheck. We would show them how the dragon fire worked, and they would decide whether we were allowed to use it based on local regulations. Sometimes, the fire would come out like lava, and since the stage was covered in carpet, I literally had to stamp out flames while playing guitar. Other times, the effects worked perfectly. It was just unbelievable—that stage. Not only was it a dream come true to be in a band with Ronnie James Dio, my favorite singer, but also to perform on that kind of headlining stage. It was like going from zero to ten in an instant. It was unbelievable.

Keel was the opening band on that European leg of the tour. The Helsinki show was also their first show outside of the US. I personally know Ron Keel, so I have to ask—do you have any special memories of him or the band from that tour?

Craig Goldy: Well, I remember it was really interesting to watch Ronnie work, because he truly cared about every opening act. In fact, after we lost him, I started doing the same thing because I wanted to make sure his approach didn’t get lost. During soundcheck, he always made sure the opening act had time to check their sound—unless there were serious issues. And if they didn’t get a soundcheck, he would literally go to their dressing room, stand there and apologize, explaining what had happened. And he genuinely felt bad about it.

And every singer with talent—Ronnie would kind of take them under his wing during that tour. I remember Ron Keel and Ronnie spending a lot of time together, just sitting and talking, because Ronnie really liked him. It was great to see them connect and to watch how Ronnie worked behind the scenes. He never called them an opening act to their face. He would say, “You’re not an opening act—we’re just sharing the same stage tonight.” And I thought that was really cool.

So later, with Dio Disciples, I did the same thing. I made sure the opening band got a soundcheck. And if they didn’t, I would go and apologize and tell them, “You are not the opening act—we’re just sharing the same stage.” And seeing how much that meant to them—coming from me, someone who had worked closely with Ronnie—I can only imagine what it must have felt like when Ronnie himself did that. I always thought that was something really special about him.

DREAM EVIL TOUR AND THE END OF AN ERA

Dream Evil was your first full album with the band, and it was released in July 1987. The band played a one-off special ‘Children of the Night’ concert in Irvine in August, but once again, the actual tour started in Finland. It began with an outdoor festival called Giants of Rock in Hämeenlinna. Do you have any memories from that show?

Craig Goldy: Some. For me, it was a blur because I was still trying to better myself at a constant rate. So, to me, every day felt the same, because we would—after the show—Angelo was so great. The sound engineer was the same person who did the mixing and engineering for the albums—Angelo Arcuri. So, he was our front-of-house soundman. He would record the entire show and then give it to me so I could listen on the bus on the way to the next city. And when I heard something that needed work, I had a little four-track, a drum machine, a guitar, and a small guitar processor that I would take to my room. I’d go straight from the bus to my room. And if I didn’t get any sleep because I was working things out in my mind, I’d try to rest a bit, then work some more, improve, and then go straight from the hotel to the concert.

What I mainly remember is that everybody else would leave and go back to the hotel—but Ronnie wouldn’t. Ronnie would stay and hang out with all the fans. I thought that was really cool, so I started hanging out with him. That’s when I began to develop a relationship with the fans. And that’s when I started noticing something about European audiences. I think that’s why Ronnie made so many friends—and found many of his favorite places—especially in Europe rather than America. Because, thank God, you guys just like what you like. At least back then, you weren’t driven by trends. If something was good, you liked it, regardless of whether it was popular. And Ronnie really appreciated that. You’re very noble people, and I think Ronnie respected that.

I think that’s also why Tapio Keihänen was so close to Ronnie, because for me, Tapio kind of represented Finland. When I met him, I liked him right away, and we became very friendly. In Germany and all over Europe, Ronnie had special friends who were fan club presidents in their regions. He would not only spend time with them and take them out to dinner, but sometimes they would even travel on the tour bus with us. Those are the kinds of memories that stand out to me. I remember that when Tapio got married and had a baby, he would come to the hotel with his baby, and Ronnie would always take time for them. I didn’t get to see much of the countryside, but I do remember how beautiful it was and how wonderful the people were. Finland always left a mark on me. I remember how good I felt whenever we were there.

I rarely feel completely at ease—even today—but I remember feeling that way in Finland. And I think it was because of the people and the overall way of life. I found that very special.

Compared to the massive Sacred Heart show, the Dream Evil stage looked like a stripped-down version. Was that mainly a financial decision?

Craig Goldy: Yeah, a lot of it was. It was very expensive to bring the same stage setup that worked in a 20,000-seat arena to smaller venues. We couldn’t bring all the same props and equipment from the U.S. to Europe all the time, so we had to scale things down a bit. That was a bit of a bummer, because at the very beginning of the Dream Evil tour, we were still designing the stage. [Laughs.]

Now comes the long-awaited million-dollar question. In the middle of the tour, you left the band. What happened?

Craig Goldy: Oh, you mean why I left the first time?

Yes.

Craig Goldy: Well, at some point, I’ll tell you that story. But I can tell you what it wasn’t. I had no intention of leaving whatsoever. It was never like, “Okay, thanks, Ronnie, I’m out of here—I’m going to do a solo album now because I think I’m great.” It wasn’t like that. But the story needs to be told a certain way. When the time comes, I’ll share it properly. I want to make sure it’s told the right way. Not that I don’t trust you—this is being recorded—but I want to be sure everything is presented correctly.

Because I remember the things I did right, and the things I did wrong. Ronnie remembered the things he did right, and the things he did wrong. And we remained friends. Even though he said a couple of unflattering things at first, I didn’t want another feud, so I focused on his positive qualities in the press. He came to my wedding, and he even came to my cousin’s house for the reception. That says a lot about Ronnie James Dio. Even though I had left the band, he still showed up—knowing he would be surrounded by people—and did it anyway. We stayed friends, and that’s why I was invited back later. But at some point, I will tell the full story, because it runs deeper. What happened—and what led to it—was deeper than people think. But it wasn’t deep enough to break the strong friendship we had.

THE EARLY 90’S AND THE SOLO ALBUMS

In the early ’90s, you released two solo albums through the Shrapnel label. You worked with interesting people like Jeff Pilson, David Glen Eisley, Mike Stone, and Matt Bradley. Still, neither of these albums succeeded commercially, and they never received the attention they deserved. That must have been a difficult time overall?

Craig Goldy: Yeah, that was rough because once the “Seattle sound” hit, nobody wanted to know anything about anybody from the ’80s, and it was very brutal. But the first solo album was great because it was recorded in a proper studio with a proper engineer, and I got a chance to—even though I didn’t get credit for it—the engineer and I were the ones who produced the songs and shaped how they came out. Mike Stone did a great job. David Glen Eisley did a great job. The second one, Insufficient Therapy—I love the title and the artwork—and Jeff Pilson did a great job. But what got released were actually demos. The budget was supposed to be set aside so that once the demos were approved, we could go into a proper studio, transfer the tracks, and mix everything properly.

But at the time, the record company had it in their heads that because they had the engineer who mastered The Dark Side of the Moon for Pink Floyd, and he was willing to master the album, that’s where the budget went. So basically, the poor guy was just polishing a turd, because that Insufficient Therapy album sounds horrible—they’re just demos. They were supposed to be transferred into a proper studio, mixed properly, and then mastered properly.

But the prestige of having the guy who mastered The Dark Side of the Moon work on my album was the big carrot for the record company, and it ended up being a complete mismanagement of the budget. The second one was very frustrating—that’s why I didn’t do a third. I was signed to do three albums with Shrapnel, but I didn’t do a third because the second one had similar issues. Matt Bradley was great—God bless him. He took his own life, unfortunately, but he was a great guy to work with. There were some interesting songs on there because I was getting into some really bizarre stuff.

But once again, there wasn’t a proper budget for mixing, and the money was spent on mastering. At the time, I had to move quickly from one situation to another, so there wasn’t enough time to properly review everything. And the digital copies that were made ended up distorted—it’s crazy. Those two solo albums ended up sounding terrible because of that. There’s good material there, but the sound quality is awful. So those two albums are very embarrassing. But I’m proud of the first one.

Shrapnel was a highly successful record company in the ’80s, and many of the biggest “guitar heroes” of that time—like Marty Friedman, Jason Becker, Tony MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore, and Greg Howe—worked with them. What went wrong with your collaboration with Shrapnel?

Craig Goldy: Yeah, well, I just think that– a lot of it’s because– I believe what people say they’re going to do. What’s in the contract and what they say, I believe. And that’s what the problem was; I should have raised more hell than I did. But apparently, I didn’t have the– I guess I just didn’t have it in me to be able to fight more than I fought because, after a while, it got to the point where then, “Okay, well, if that’s the way you feel about it, we just won’t even do anything.” It was just weird because I think at that time the record company got kind of a– you know how sometimes people get when they get famous, they get kind of big-headed. But then, after a while, they settle down. Well, I think at that time, the record company was kind of big-headed. And they didn’t care as much as they did before. Now they do. I mean, me and Mike Varney are good friends again. Once again, even though I was wronged basically by him several times, I still– we remain, friends because there’s no point in killing our friendship over something like that.

WORKING WITH DAVID LEE ROTH

In the early ’90s, you also worked briefly with the legendary Van Halen frontman David Lee Roth. Was it purely a songwriting collaboration, or was there any discussion about you joining his band as well?

Craig Goldy: Well, it actually turned into both. Writing with David Lee Roth actually came from the failure of another project. Back in those days, when record companies were strong and had dedicated A&R reps—I’m sure you’ve heard of John Kalodner?

Yes, of course.

Craig Goldy: Well, John Kalodner wanted David Glen Eisley to audition for Blue Murder after John Sykes left. Then John Kalodner called me and said, “Don’t sign any contracts, Goldy. I want you to be the next guitar player for Whitesnake.” That didn’t work out because Steve Vai got the gig. I mean, come on—there’s no way I’m going to beat out Steve Vai for anything. That guy can do everything.

So, when things didn’t work out with David Glen Eisley and Blue Murder, Kalodner said, “Why don’t I put Goldy and Dave Eisley together and see what they come up with?” But he didn’t tell us he was looking for a Bad Company sound. So we went into the studio and came up with some good material, but he passed on it because it wasn’t what he wanted. He should have said that from the start. That demo—called ‘First Rights Refusal’—became ours after they passed on it. So I sent it to Warner Brothers to see if anyone might be interested in the songs. The very next day, I got a phone call. My girlfriend answered it and looked like she was talking to the President of the United States. She handed me the phone, I said, “Hello,” and I hear, “Hey, man, love your stuff. David Lee Roth here. I love your stuff, man. Can we get together and write? Here’s my producer.”

At the time, he was working with Bob Ezrin. I only really knew him from his work with Pink Floyd—I didn’t realize how extensive his catalog was. So suddenly, what started as a failed project turned into a phone call from David Lee Roth—and my first gold record. [Laughs.] He was a really nice guy. It turned out he also wanted me to be his guitar player. And quite honestly—and I rarely say this—I knew I wasn’t the right guy. I had already been a sideman for a long time, and I didn’t want to be in that role again. And after seeing what someone like Steve Vai could do, he needed a guitarist who could literally play anything. That just wasn’t me. So I didn’t want the gig because I knew I wasn’t the right fit. But strangely, that seemed to make him want me even more—like when someone turns down a date. He started taking me out to dinner, taking me to different places, and we ended up writing together for about three months.

I’d go to his house—his private home—and he had his band downstairs, with all the Van Halen tour cases and everything. He’d listen to my ideas and then send them downstairs for the band to learn. It was a great experience. Afterward, it would just be the two of us sitting outside, talking. He had this multi-level backyard, and one level had a pool with rock-climbing holds around it. So one night, we were climbing around the edge of the pool, seeing if we could make it all the way across without falling in. [Laughs.]

I remember hearing similar stories about David Lee Roth from his former guitarist John 5, a great guy and a fantastic player.

Craig Goldy: John 5—I like him. He was at one of the Rock and Roll Fantasy Camps I did. What a great guy. And he’s one of those players—he can play anything you throw at him. Same with Steve Vai. And even Jason Becker—there’s a funny story. After they chose ‘Lady Luck’, they called me to Dave’s house to show Jason Becker how to play the riff. Can you believe that? You don’t teach Jason Becker anything.

What it came down to was the difference between legato and staccato phrasing. The riff in ‘Lady Luck’ is kind of Blackmore-style—very staccato—while the legato parts were meant to sit slightly behind the beat. Jason had them reversed, so they asked me to come in and show him how I played it. I thought that was crazy, but it gave me a chance to meet him—and what a great guy. And again, he’s one of those players—he could play anything you throw at him.

I remember seeing the A Little Ain’t Enough tour in Helsinki, and Joe Holmes (ex-Lizzy Borden) was playing guitar on that tour.

Craig Goldy: Oh, Joe Holmes.

And he did a fine job. Later, I saw him playing with Ozzy Osbourne in Donington—I think it was 1996. I believe he’s a great guitar player, but he never had the chance on any major records with Dave or Ozzy.

Craig Goldy: Right. Well, I understand how you would get that impression. I remember Joe from the days when we used to rehearse at a place called Mates in North Hollywood. And he was another one of those guys who could just pick up a guitar and play almost anything. And unfortunately, back then, that was the beginning of the end for opportunities for the ’80s sound. I think that’s why it was difficult for him to find a gig, because if that window of opportunity had stayed open a little longer, he would have done just fine.

WORKING WITH JEFF FENHOLT

One very interesting thing you did in the ’90s was your collaboration with the well-known Christian evangelist and former Black Sabbath vocalist Jeff Fenholt (RIP 2019). Can you tell us more about this project?

Craig Goldy: Oh, well, because I believe in God, it bothered me—not that people can’t have their own opinions or make their own choices, that’s not a big deal—but I started realizing back then that many people were turned off by God because of the way some church people and Christians treated them. And that bothered me. So, a friend of mine from Driver, Jeff Fenholt, was working on the Christian channel TBN, and he had his own show that reached something like 30 million people. He asked me to be a guest on his show, so I did. I also did an impression making fun of TV preachers—kind of like a “The emperor has no clothes” type of thing.

It ended up becoming the sixth most requested episode ever on TBN—this heavy metal guitar player making fun of TV preachers. Apparently, they loved it. They could actually take a joke. So he kept inviting me back, and we started doing songs together as well. I would create backing tracks, and at one point, a church asked us to come and perform. So I had to build these backing tracks for us to play to, and it was a lot of fun. What happened was that because I was the guitar player from Dio, and Jeff had a stint in Black Sabbath, a lot of kids who normally avoided church started paying attention. Back then, everything was promoted with flyers—there was no Facebook. They’d see something like, “The guitar player from Dio and the singer from Black Sabbath are going to speak and perform at a church,” and think, “What?” So they had to check it out.

And the message was that you don’t have to be a weirdo to believe in God. I even had a pastor admit that once. I was a guest speaker at a church, and I said, “If you don’t read your Bible every day, don’t go to church every Sunday, maybe smoke some pot, drink alcohol, or curse a little—that doesn’t automatically mean you’re going to hell, does it, pastor?” [Laughs.] The whole church turned to him, and he had to say, “He’s right.” And it seemed to change everything. It was a way of saying, “Look, this belief in God is different from what you think. It’s not just rules and regulations or some cold-hearted figure allowing bad things to happen.” There’s a lot more to it—I could talk about that forever. But for me, it came from a very dark place. I had a really difficult childhood. I was in and out of hospitals, and I suffered severe beatings—bad enough to require stitches and surgeries. At one point, I couldn’t even urinate because the injury was so severe that scar tissue had formed in my urethra. I had to undergo a procedure where they inserted a metal tube and injected fluid to try to dissolve the scar tissue—not exactly fun when you’re 11 years old.

I hated everything about that time in my life. But later, when we started playing big arenas, I found myself turning to music in those moments. Ronnie was like my voice. After almost every beating, I would listen to his songs—he was my go-to for comfort. And I realized that his music spoke to the downtrodden, the outsiders, and the people who were quietly suffering. A lot of fans came to those shows trying to escape their everyday lives. And when they made it backstage, Ronnie was incredible—he would immediately turn it around and say, “Hey, can I get you anything? Can I do something for you?” He treated them with such kindness that it completely blew their minds. So I started doing the same thing—asking people how they were doing, getting them to talk about their lives instead of mine. And they would often say, “You don’t know what it feels like.” And I’d put my arm around them, look them in the eye, and say, “You know what? I know exactly what it feels like.” And that changed everything. That’s when I realized the reason I became successful wasn’t just about fame or money—it was about being able to help people. All the things I hated growing up became my strength. I could reach people who felt unreachable.

So when we did those church events, I met people from all walks of life—some were Vietnam veterans with PTSD, people who had lost their families and were on the verge of suicide. I would sit with them and talk. And I’d get messages saying, “Hey, thanks for doing that. We found him a place to stay, got him a job, reunited him with his kids.” Things like that. That period was a really meaningful time for me. Instead of feeling sorry for myself because it was the ’90s and people weren’t paying attention anymore, I was able to turn it around and focus on helping others. And I really loved that.

So, how long did you work with Jeff Fenholt?

Craig Goldy: It was roughly between ’93 and ’96—something like that.

Because you worked closely with Jeff, did you ever meet another former Black Sabbath singer, David Donato, who later became a well-known preacher after his music career?

Craig Goldy: No, I never got a chance to. I did get an opportunity to work with a couple of guys who had been in Black Sabbath when we did something called the Classic Rock All-Stars in Russia. There were a few times when I got to work with Jeff Nichols before he passed away. And then there was Tony Martin, who sang on Headless Cross, and Bobby Rondinelli, who played with Rainbow and Black Sabbath.

And I’ve also been able to work with Vinny Appice again, but I never met David Donato.

He was only in Sabbath for a couple of months, and I think it was Jeff who then replaced him in the band.

Craig Goldy: Oh, wow. Okay, because that sounds like the same era when Jeff Fenholt did some demos with the band.

Jeff sadly passed away in 2019, and now David Donato also passed away last February.

Craig Goldy: Oh no, I didn’t know that. I’m sorry. No, I didn’t. I’ve been out of the loop—I was in a car accident and had a bit of an injury. So I’ve been out of the loop for a while. But I’ll make a full recovery. It’s just been a bit of a bummer.

…. Part 2 of the interview will be published tomorrow at 3 pm CET.