“Out of the Loop” – An interview with Clawfinger’s Zak Tell

During one of the last days of February, I got a chance to chat with Zak Tell, the front man of Swedish rap-industrial-metal OG’s, Clawfinger. The band has just released their eight full-length studio album, “Before We All Die“, which is their first new studio record in 19 years! Let’s get to find out where the hell time has flown, and what Zak has on his mind.

Hello Zak and welcome to Chaoszine interview. How has the winter time been for you and guys of Clawfinger?

Zak: Thank you! Well, it’s been winter and it’s been busy. I mean, I had forgotten how much work it demands to release a new album. There’s a lot of shit that needs to be done. It’s been 19 years, so I had forgotten what to do (laughing). But over all it’s been good!

As you guys finally got back on the track, how did it feel like writing and coming up with a new album after all those years?

Zak: Well, it felt pretty natural, you know. We had a short break in 2013 but apart from that we’ve been active. We’ve kept playing, we’ve kept doing festivals, so it pretty much feels like continuation. It doesn’t really feel like 19 years in some ways, but then in other ways it feels so long ago, so on the other hand, it almost feels like our first album… so it feels like double… it has two sides to this.

Your brand new album is called “Before We All Die” what does the album title represent to you? Obviously there’s many sides to that as well.

Zak: I’m not sure if there’s many sides to that, but there are a few. Some time in early 2023 we had a Zoom-meeting with our manager. He knew, we had written like 6-7 songs, and in his position, obviously, he wanted us to release a new album. So he said: “Guys, I know as you’ve already got those songs finished, maybe you should write a few more, so we can release a new album before we all die”. – That’s how we came up with the title. That’s the whole story. And we laughed, because he was right. Because it had been loads of fucking years since we released a new album, and it was funny because we’re all getting older, and eventually we’re all gonna die.

Did you guys agree with him at the spot with the idea or did you hesitate at first?

Zak: Yeah, I mean, we said, sure we can give it a go, and if it works, it works, and if it doesn’t, we’ll just release an EP or something. A nice thing of being a bit older and sort of being out of the loop of a record company circle (tour – album – tour – album), is that we didn’t have that kind of presure on strict schedules.

So if it works, fuck we can do it. As we got all those songs more or less finished, it wasn’t that kind of hard to write a few more. And then throw on the two last singles, and Bam! – We had a 12-songs for the album. And I understand why people tend to feel like: ‘Jesus, you guys been preparing the new album longer than Guns ‘n Roses for fuck’s sake!’, but yeah, that’s life. Sometimes life has other plans for you snd things take its time.

Clawfinger has always been known for politically charged lyrics. And you still have those politically strong points of view included in your new songs. For example “Scum”, which hits the current President of United States verbally right in the face and leaves no questions about your opinions on today’s World politics. How do you see it, has the world developed during these years you hadn’t recorded new music?

Zak: Err.. Has it developed? – That’s the question. The only thing thag has really changed is that everyone has got an access to information everywhere. And because of that everyone has a fucking opinion about everything. There are lots of trolls and keyboard warriors who have strong opinions about things.

But the answer to yiur question is I don’t really feel it has changed that much. It’s just new leaders, new arseholes. New, corrupt, morally fucked up people in high positions. The names have changed but the nsme of the game is the same… so I would say, nothing has changed, really, unfortunately. It certainly hasn’t changed for the better.

Your new album sounds very angry, and in a way, it feels like you guys have now more to say than some years ago. Or what is your own gut-feeling on this?

Zak: Well, I don’t know, that’s really not for me judge here. But, you know, we are crossover rap-metal-hardcore band. We write music with heavy guitars and heavy drums. So it kind of has to be aggressive, because it is just in our nature. Basically, we do what we’ve always done. For a while I thought, our new album was maybe a bit introvert and a bit calmer. But listening to it now, as I actually got the CD, I realised that shit, we’re still pretty fucking angry.

You know, there’s plenty of stuff to be angry about. It’s not hard to come up with themes. But as I said, there’s an introvert side to it as well, but I guess we’ve always had that kind of sude to our songs. It’s always been a mixture of ‘political’ stuff and quite personal stuff. You know’ personally I’ve never really seen us as political band at all, but I understand that because we have strong opinions, and we’re not scared to say what we think, we can consider that political.

“Even though I don’t have problem with someone seeing us as a political band, but in terms of forced subject framework, I’ve never cared about being political. I write what I write, and it turns into whatever it happens to turn into, you know. That’s kind of how our song writing works. You don’t know yourself after the time, when you start writing a song, what is the song going to become. That’s kind of magic of music as well.

Yes, it is, I agree, and in the end of the day, it is also very humane.

Zak: Yeah! We’re humans, we just happen to be in a band. We cry and bleed and we shit just like anyone else. It doesn’t make us any different to anyone else. We’ve just been a bit luckier than some of the people. (laughing)

How was the writing process of your new album?

Zak: Up until the call with our manager we hadn’t even thought about making songs again. There was no masterplan (about songs, cover-art etc.). I wish we had, but we didn’t. And because we are the people we are and because we’ve done this for over 35 years, the songs turn out the way they do. Let’s put it this wat: Our songs are very recognisable. We have a very distinct sound. I haven’t always realized that, but as years go by, I realize that more and more.

We’re kind of AC/DC of crossover rap-metal. It’s because we have our sound. So basically one of the oldest songs on the album is probably “Scum“, which is about five years old. The first version of the song wasn’t about the guy with the orange skin. I changed those lyrics like a year ago. Because it was not about anybody. It was just about hating. It felt kind of stupid screaming if I wasn’t screaming to someone in particular. But that’s propably the oldest song on the album. The newest one is actually “Before We All Die”.

Because we had nine songs plus the two singles (“Environmental Patients” and “Ball & Chain”), I felt like eleven songs is a shit number of songs for an album. Propably because of my OCD or something I possibly have, but eleven did not look good to me. I wanted twelve songs. So I asked the guys, shouldn’t we write a song called “Before We All Die“. And so we have a song that is named the same as the album title and that song would tie all songs together. So we finished that one in late August–September, I guess. And all the other songs were born there in between these.

Some of those are year old, some three years old. So it’s different for each song. I haven’t kept track when we exactly worked with specific of songs. But there’s a good five years of writing all these songs there. You know… we’re not a concept band. Our songs are our songs where there’s a red thread that’s Clawfinger (‘trademark’ sound). And once again, because we write the songs the way we do, it worked really well to make an album out of them, even though that wasn’t really a plan with it.

There’s a versatile selection of influences “Before We All Die” includes in my ear. For example funky hip hop, fresh ambient and experimental sounds. Were the any particular artistic and stylish goals you wanted your music to achieve with this record, or was it all just a result of natural creative process?

Zak: Well, most of it is natural, I mean of course as human beings we are inspired by (different kinds of) stuff as you hear the stuff… We always have been the kind of band that said ‘if it feels like we’ve heard this before then we won’t use it’. So for example, in the early days we would never use a blues-based song idea simply because there’s so many bands and albums out there that have the kind of blues foundation. I love blues, I’ve got nothing against the blues, but we didn’t want to have that, because it’s too easy and too obvious.

The same thing we did, we said we’re not doing guitar solos, because there are too many of them and they are wanky. Basically the number one goal in the early days was to write stuff that we hadn’t heard before, that felt original. And we’re still that kind of way even now. I think the main difference between us in the early days and now is that we’re now more relaxed to allow ourselves to what we weren’t allowing in the early days.

So now, if we have a good hip-hop-beat that remind me a bit of Cypress Hill of if we have got a blues solo, it doesn’t matter, because in the end of the day, the layers we put on top of that make it turn into Clawfinger anyway. So it doesn’t matter. – We can do whatever the fuck we want! And that’s a really nice freedom. And I think that’s possibly the biggest difference between this album and our previous albums. These days we just don’t care. If we like it when we hear it, then we use it. If it’s reminicent to something, that’s fine, because with my vocals, Bård (Torstensen)’s guitar playing and Jocke Skog)’s synths and loops it’s gonna turn into us anyway, you know.

Well, a great example of that might be your new song “A Perfect Day“. I just fell in love with the song instantly. A sort of slow-motion hip hop -intro turns slightly into aggressive mood and riffing. There’s such a vast spectre of styles and indegridents inside the one song. And I thought these guys don’t give s shit if they cross the barriers what is allowed and what is not musically speaking.

Zak: Yeah, as I said, we don’t care anymore, and that propably is one of the nicest things of getting older. And having been doing this for so many years, we’re not stressed out about things, we’re not worried about things. Of course, I want the album to do well and stuff, but at the end of the day I’m just happy we made an album and had good time in making it. I really don’t care that much what happens with it.

But of course it would be great if people gave it a listen, especially if you’ve ever been into Clawfinger. Give it a listen, and you would probably be surprised. It’s not a tired comeback-album. It’s just another Clawfinger -album in the same style as we’ve always done. And you might find out that we’re still pretty fucking angry and still pretty fucking hardcore and… We’re not tired! So give it a listen. If you like it, listen to it more. If you don’t like it, go and find your eargasm from somewhere else.

As many of us know you guys well back from the early ’90’s, the story of how and where Clawfinger was established, relates to this humble subject of humanity. Did I get it right, that the place was a mental institution in which all you guys worked at those days in Stockholm?

Zak: Well you’re not quite right, it wasn’t a mental institution, it was geriatric ward, a hospital for elderly people, but there was a psychiatric ward for the elderly resided on the opposite side of the road to where we worked at. We took care of the old people. Brushed their teeth, helped them get to the toilet, talked to them, feed them… that kind of stuff. And actually every member of the original line-up of Clawfinger worked there.

To me it seems like that kind of humane and caring attitude and mentality comes out of your music and can be read between the lines of your lyrics as well.

Zak: Yeah, I mean, I have said it many times even in the early interviews, that I think it would be a good thing for all young people to work in a hospital and take care of old people, because it’s a nice and necessary thing to do. And if we’re lucky, we’re all gonna end up there. It gives you a bit of perspective, and I believe it propably has helped us to keep our feet on the ground a bit more, or maybe we would have done a bit otherwise. So I am sure, it has coloured us in some ways, you know, turned us into the kind of people we are.I have friends who say ‘I don’t understand how can you work in a hospital, wipe up shit and piss and take care of peoples’ wounds. To me there’s nothing strange about it. It’s fairly natural.

Basically it’s very punk attitude and virtue itself to help people who are not able to help themselves. I’ve also got personal experience of social work, so I’ve got sort of clue on the values where you guys come from.

Zak: Yeah, cool if it’s punk. But yes. People need help. Everyone of us will need help at some point. You know, we need to try to be there for each other. To me, it made much more sense than to work in an office. It was the first job I applied for after I finished school. I refused to do military service. They tried to get me do my military service working in an hospital, but I kind of thought that didn’t make any sense.

Because it would have meant 1.) I would be supporting military, which I don’t believe in and 2.) By paying me shit (low daily allowance) compared to if I just get the job anyway (and would be getting paid fair salary), so I just said ‘screw you, I’m not gonna do it via Swedish army’. So I just ended up getting the job by myself.

In the early ´90´s you guys were sort of the OG’s of Scandinavian cross over rap -metal. Do you still find new interesting artists from new generations coming from the local hip hop and metal genres, or do you even listen to this kind of music on your free time?

Zak: I listen to all kinds of music. Country and western… (laughing) Well, I still find new stuff but I’m not as hungry as I used to be. You know, in the old days I would literally go out searching for new music. And I would buy all the music magazines and I would read the reviews and interviews and all, and also order a whole lots of records. Honestly, I backtrack more these days. I go listening to my old favourites. And once again, I think that’s an age thing too. But I mean, there’s still good music out there. There’s still new bands coming.

I’m not particularily metalhead, really. Of course, I like loads of hard bands, but I wouldn’t call myself a metalhead in the traditional meaning of the word, you know what I mean… I like music. Years ago I used to go DJ a lot with my friends, and we would play exclusively old soul and funk. I’m a massive Frank Zappa -fan, I’m also a massive Tom Waits -fan. Obviously I like loads of rap, mostly old school, you know… like Public Enemy, Ice Cube, A Tribe Called Quest and stuff…

But you know, music is always gonna be around and there’s alwsys gonna be new music, you know. And it’s just up to you, how interested are you to find out the new stuff. Today there’s loads of shit as well, but there was also loads of shit in the old days. It’s just easier to make music nowadays.

Sometimes maybe that sometimes takes away a bit of the charm and artistry behind it. But then again, I think it’s pretty cool that everyone can sit home and make music. So..ah… you can be grumpy about it or you can be like ‘Cool! Fuck! People can make music wherever they want`. That’s kind of cool when you think about it.

During the years of Clawfinger’s existence you guys have also made some remixes of other bands’ songs. Songs made by Rammstein, Drain, Die Krupps for example. How do you usually have come up with the ideas of remixes? Have you guys planned to do some more of those in the future?

Zak: I’m probably the wrong guy for you to ask about the remixes, because I’m not really involved with those, because I’m not the studio wizard nor the technical guy. You know, I have a small digital audio workstation, but to me it’s pretty much just for being able to record my vocals, not for making remixes of music. The way it works is the bands ask us, and if it’s the band we like and if it makes sense to do a remix, well then we make one.

But at this point, we’ve got no plans to do new remixes. Jocke, our keyboard player and programmer is a technical wizard. And Bård is really good as well. I love his jazz-remixes of another Rammstein-song, “Keine Lust” (Clawfinger Keine Lust Jazz Remix). Soft jazz guitar. There´s no heavy guitars or anything. It’s really fun to listen to.

Around 25 years ago I actually bought “Sonne” -CD-single by Rammstein, and the bonus tracks on that are “Clawfinger K.O.” and “T.K.O.” remixes along with. Actually I ended up preferring those Clawfinger remixes way more to the original version by Rammstein.

Zak: Yes, I agree. And guess why it is that those sound better? – Because it is Bård playing all guitars on those remix tracks. Once upon a time Rammstein chose our producer (Jacob Hellner) to produce their album because they liked how our guitars sound. They (Rammstein) were our support band in late 1995.

They liked our first album (“Deaf Dumb Blind”, 1993) and they took our producer because they wanted that guitar sound (to their own record). Of course they couldn’t do it as well as us, so of course our guitars sound better. I mean they are (nowadays) much bigger band than us, but our guitars still sound better! (laughing)

How will the year 2026 be to Clawfinger?

Zak: At the moment we have festival gigs booked in Europe. So I guess that’s what we have the closest coming up. Yeah, so we’ll see what happens. When you release an album you never know. Some people obviously hate it, some people love it. And then you have everything inbetween; people who don’t care and so on. But usually when you release an album, you know, surprising things can happen.

So we’ll see what the future has in store, but as for now there’s nine festivals that may turn into a few more. Then at the moment we have a small club tour booked in October and November. At the moment it’s only about two or three weeks. There has also been talk about adding some Nordic or Scandinavian dates and weekends, maybe… Finland is also included, and it will probably be in Helsinki. We’ll see what happens.

But, you know, we are not going be doing three months tours. it’s not gonna happen. Some of have other jobs, we are all between 54-65 (years of age). I’m not prepared to live that lifestyle on the road endlessly. I’ll do 2 or 3 weeks fine, but… it’s a special lifestyle. It’s fun as hell but it also takes it’s toll. It’s quite demanding. And it also depends on logistics and money, kind of boring crap, you know…

I saw you guys play at Hellsinki Metal Festival rough one and half years ago, and it seemed you are still enjoying performing on stage.

Zak: Yeah, I mean Hellsinki Metal Festival was really fun. We played early, we don’t care about that. Our job is the same regardless. It means we have more time to drink beer and watch other bands play, so that’s fun as well, you know… And you know, playing live really is the thing we love the most. I don’t like to repeat myself by talking about how old we are, but even that has become more fun now, because we’re much more relaxed with it.

It’s not rocket science, it’s just rock ‘n roll. You get up on stage and try and create a good atmosphere with the audience you have in front of you. It’s not a competition. Our goal is to make people feel like the stage lowers down to (the level of) the audience, you know. We don’t wanna be rockstars. None of us is wearing sunglasses at night. We don’t want to do any of that crap.

We wanna create a good party together with everyone who wants to see us, you know. And once you realize it’s really not harder than that, then it’s actually quite easy. You know, we put a lot of love and effort into doing a high-energy show. But it’s really quite easy as you decide to have fun with it instead of standing there trying to look like a tough mean bastard, you know… There’s really no contradiction in having a good time cheering the crowd with a beer on stage and saying something that mean something.

You can combine those two, and it’s so nice to realize that. Hey! It’s just a party and we’re rolling this party together, so let’s make it a fucking party, you know. It’s really refreshing. I can only speak for myself, but in the´90’s I thought that I had to look mean and hard because we were talking about hard things or serious topics, you know. And these days it’s like ‘Ahh… Fuck it…’ and it’s freeing to realize that, you know.

And I suppose, it’s also because you’re more mature now and you have found your own way to express yourselves the way it is natural for you guys, right?

Zak: Yeah, in some ways we’re more mature and the same time… the funny thing being in a band is that you don’t really realize you’re growing older. (laughing) So when we go out as older boys, it’s like we are suddenly 23 again. Something happens in the band bubble when you’re out on the road. We become the same stupid little kids again, which is really fun and really refreshing, of course.”

… But in that age, of which you older boys are now, the life on the road isn’t going to become any healthier for you, right?

Zak: “Life on the road is not healthy. You eat junk food and you drink too much beer. You stay up too late… You have to be slightly more careful with it, but old habits die hard, you know. Luckily, we basically just drink beer. We’ve never done all the other crap (drugs). We like our beer and that’s basically it, which makes it easy. I’m not a heroin addict, I’m not a cocaine addict. I’ve never even tried that stuff, I don’t care for it. I don’t smoke pot. – Never have, not interested in it. I like beer, I’m Scandinavian.

Was it all a conscious decision from all of you guys not to play longer tours anymore or is it a result of some other factors in the band and music business?

Zak: I’m sure it depends on which member of the band you ask. But I remember that we did a 7-week tour in 1997, and when we got home from that tour, we decided that we’re never gonna do more than three weeks in a row. Because something happens inside your brain like our old guitarist (Erlend Ottem) said ´I feel like I´m on autopilot`. You feel like a jukebox in the end, and that’s not a feeling you want to have.

The nice thing about not doing so many gigs all the time is, that it leaves you with more energy for the gigs as you actually do play, and it makes them feel more fun, more exclusive. And it makes it easier to have the energy to do them properly, you know. So it is a kind of a band decision, but you know, once again I’m sure, there’s some guys in the band that liked to tour more. And those are also the guys that don’t have other jobs.

Please Zak, shout out your best wishes for the Chaoszine readers and followers

Zak: Be cool, be yourselves. Keep on keeping on, do your thing. Don’t worry too much about what the other people think. That’s their fucking problem. Enjoy your life, make the most of it. Do what makes you happy.

Thank you Zak for your precious time. It was an enjoyable moment chatting with you. All the best to you and to Clawfinger. Hopefully we see you guys on tour very soon!

Zak: Thank you for your time! Have a nice evening.